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Talk:Shen/@comment-188.79.124.182-20120926085752
I'm the same guy that posted that "ban shen pls" post recently. I came here and I still see people like "Core ban in high elo ranked". Do you actually play this champion? If you call Shen "unlimited split pushing" just because of his ultimate... lol Seriously? How can you call a 200 / 180 / 160 second cooldown "global" ultimate (needs teammates to be placed correctly) unilimited split pushing? Shen can't even get much CDR to lower this because he doesn't synergize with this stat nor the items that provide it much. Hell, Shen can't even push until you get one, maybe even two very concrete items just so he can BARELY push so he kills a minion wave before the next one has reached the same spot. That's the truth: Shen is one of the worst pushers in the game. It's incredibly slow at clearing both minion waves and towers. If you wish to make use of his ultimate once every three minutes at most (not counting some times you have to use it to save a teammate in a tight situation) and push with him, you have a tank that lacks a fast Randuin or whatever good tank item the game needs just because he needed to itemize to be able to push anything. Or if you prefer to build him more like a bruiser, it'd be a bruiser that deals much less damage than others to champions in an early situation, for the same reason. You may say, then don't build him like a pusher. Wasn't him OP because of his oh-so-called unlimited pushing? Play him in some normals, man. Here's the thing: With this champion you have to decide wrether to be able to push but die fast and deal no damage, or not die fast and tank but not being able to push or do damage, or finally do some damage to threaten the enemy team but die fast and not being able to push. You can't do everything unless you get EXTREMELY fed early, which in his case is rare because he's not the killer type of champion. And there's more... I main tank champions, they are the most fun to use for me. I play them all (almost, I dislike a couple of them like Sejuani). And Shen isn't even that great of a tank. His only CC is very little AoE disable that doesn't last for too long, only one second and a half, which can be reduced by tenacity. Not only that, this CC requires him to jump in the middle of the enemy team. Unless you build him full tank (and if you do, forget about pushing), you are going to melt almost instantly without acheving much. So, as a tank can't initiate unless enemy team is in a huge disadvantadge or are just stupid. And since his only CC is so brief and has such a high cooldown (specially when not levelled up), Shen doesn't act like an optimal peeler either. Let's compare him to some popular tanks right now. As an initiator, Malphite has his ultimate, that can disable for the same time (1.5 seconds, duration which isn't reduced by tenacity by the way) but potentially more targets since it covers a much larger distance and has an also much larger AoE. It also deals double the damage on top of that. You may argue, but that's his ultimate, of course it's better. The thing is, when you initiate you are going to use your kit at its fullest anyway. Also, Malphite after initiating can steal movement speed of a target and has access to an AoE attack speed reduction, while Shen can't do shit other than hope to survive until his only CC is up again, while doing some barely noticeable damage or maybe do some more but not lasting anything. As a peeler, let's compare him to Alistar. Defending your squishy allies, if enemy team focus him as Shen you can jump into them and disabling them for 1.5 seconds reduced by tenacity, most likely dying in the process. Alistar can Pulverize them all for and disabling 1 second (not reduced by tenacity), and then 0,5 seconds (reduced by tenacity), while also being able to push away in a more favorable position (in other words, screw with the positioning of the enemy team in the teamfight and punishin them for initiating) thanks to his Headbutt. He also deals more damage overall with these abilities, can make use of a small heal (it's something) and in the case enemy team try to focus him, he can actually tank them like nobody's business activating his ultimate. Even playing as a support with only GP5 items. Maybe Alistar's cooldowns are a bit higher than Shen's, but since they are split into two abilities and Alistar can actually itemize for CDR, he ends up winning. In the end and in my experience, because of his lack of stats as a tank, he ends up as the WORST tank in the game period if your allies are having a bad time and enemy team ends up fed. In that case your CC is rendered useless since enemy team melts you in a second once you jump to disable anyone, and your ultimate shield is not enough for your squishy allies to turns the tides of the game. What I'm trying to say with all this is not that Shen sucks as a champion. No, I really like him. It's just that this community's attitude towards him is pissing me off so much. He's FAR from OP, I'd even say that he's more in the way of UP with all these constants nerfs. Really, guys. Play him some normal games before banning him to oblivion. If you can crush the enemy team as him in your first game, even if your allies are elo-hell-level retarded, then maybe you'll see why he's banned consistently for over 90% of the ranked games. Oh wait, you won't. Because he isn't this kind of forbidden-to-play OP God you make him out to be. He's just a cool and fun champion that has the ability to fulfill various roles to some extent, one has to decide in each game on what to specialize to succeed, and adds nice strategy for some competitive and organized teams to exploit, adding an unique mechanic to the game with his ultimate. A very nice mix between tank and support. Please let people play him. PD: This is unlimited split pushing, guys: http://www.dota2.com/hero/Tinker/ You only need to hit level 6 and get a pair of level 2 boots to achieve it. If you cry so much over Shen I can't imagine how the hell would you handle this hero. I'll leave it there.